Post 36-Ghosts

 

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 12:44 PM, I wrote to Dana

            ....Concerning ghosts. What about doing a post on ghosts--yes or no and what the Bible says?  I was talking to someone at work yesterday about them. He's an unbeliever. If push were to come to shove, I think I'd have to come down on the side of yes, but...

            What do you think about this idea?

John

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Then Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 1:05 PM Dana almost immediately answered with

     You are not going to believe this, but I have been thinking about a Blog on ghosts, but have not pushed the idea because I feared folks might think it too weird.  But your e-mail was a confirmation.  Let's give it some thought--but I'm in if you want to do it .  Great minds think alike, eh, Amigo?  Dana

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John answered on Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:14 AM

Hey Dana

            Have you noticed the increasing fascination with ghosts and spirits over the past few years? On some television channel, probably around the clock, some show is dealing with “good” spirits (always good looking—usually—young women, or “evil” often male or, again, usually good looking young women) spirits. They have various super powers and bags of earth shaking tricks. Those shows are not my thing, although (long before I was saved) I did regularly watch I Dream of Jeannie. And of course, for anyone who’s ever seen Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze  in the 1990 film Ghost, who can forget that movie and its final scene? (Too bad it’s not true. How many people have been lured in the wrong direction because of that movie?)

            I was talking recently with two different people at different times. With one, I was asked if I believed in ghosts. After a time of thinking how to answer, I said, “Yes. The Bible even has an example of it (see Saul and the Witch of Endor, 1 Samuel 28). With the other person, that person said there is an evil spirit living upstairs in their house. I wondered if that person’s maladies were because of this. When we used to go to Connecticut to visit our grandson, we would stay in an old inn that was supposedly haunted.  The Yankee Peddler Inn even has a You-tube video on the paranormal activity that supposedly takes place there. We’ve stayed a number of times but have yet to see the ghost. A former neighbor, a college professor, astronomer, cartoonist, and author, before he moved to another region of the country, brought over his newest book (at that time) which dealt with ghosts. He knew my spiritual state and wanted to know what I thought about ghosts.

            I haven’t studied this subject. I consider this playing with fire and my momma didn’t raise no dummy; although, I know the Bible has much to say about sorcery (or medium, or a spiritist, or necromancy) and that no sorcerer will go to heaven. One web site has 33 verses that deal with this, e.g. 2 Chronicles 33:6, Isaiah 47:9-13, Galatians 5: 19-21, or Rev 21:8. And I don’t know if demons are ghosts, but I do know that God has given me (us, all Christians) the power to cast them (demons) out, Luke 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

            And of course, there is Smith Wigglesworth (https://www.canecreekchurch.org/what-s-your-legacy/44-smith-wigglesworth , who awoke from a sound sleep with a evil presence in his room  When he realized what, or rather who, the presence was, he said to it, “Oh, it’s only you Satan,” and then he went back to sleep.

            While I haven’t had the same experience as Wigglesworth, I have wrestled with the devil. One time, especially comes to mind. We were at Valley Forge Christian College. The college president, Owen Carr, was facing a hostile group of people in a college related meeting, and I was burdened to pray for him. I went to the building that had been the chapel when the Army had the property as a hospital. I used my key and let myself in, and began to pray. Satan didn’t want Brother Carr to be successful in that meeting. For over an hour Satan came at me in waves, at me and then backing off, at me and then backing off. At times my body was tingling at his presence and the hair on my head was standing out.  I was wrung out at the end of that attack, but victorious through Jesus Christ and the blood of the Lamb and His power in me that is greater than anything in or of this world.

            What do you think, Dana? Are there ghosts and what should Christians do about them? Or whatever you might feel to write on this subject.

           Here is an additional question.  Since I’ve started this post, Carol asked me about the witch of Endor, with the conjuring up Samuel. How could she bring Samuel back? Was it because he had gone to Abraham’s bosom, and not like the rich man who was separated by the “great chasm”? And if that is true, does that mean a non-Christian can never be conjured back? (Luke 16:19-31)

Yours for the Harvest

John

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Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:47 PM    

 Hi John,

     Ghosts….interesting topic.  Interesting too, is the passage from Matthew 14:23-27.

 

“When evening came, he was there alone, ²⁴ but the boat by this time was a long way from the land, beaten by the waves, for the wind was against them. ²⁵ And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. ²⁶ But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” and they cried out in fear. ²⁷ But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Take heart; it is I. Do not be afraid.” (ESV)

 

     There are several Greek words used for spirit or ghost depending on the context.  The word for ghost in the Matthew passage is phantasma, which means an apparition, and is not used to refer to either the Holy Spirit, or evil and unclean spirits—all different Greek words.  Of all the words used for “spirit,” phantasma is used for what we would most commonly term a ghost. Our English word phantom is derived from this word; so we’re talking ghosts, and not another kind of spirit.

     A while back I heard an interview with the late Cris Putnam, who wrote “The Supernatural Worldview.”  He made an intriguing point, in that the disciples who saw Jesus walking on the water thought He was a ghost (“spirit” in the KJV).  Notice that while Jesus chides Peter for his lack of faith in his attempt to walk on the water, Jesus does not take the disciples to task for thinking He was a ghost.  One would naturally think that if ghosts did not exist, or that they were, in fact, just evil spirits of some kind or another, that Jesus would have said something to the effect, “Hey, come on guys, get real, you all know there’s no such thing as ghosts.”  But He didn’t….

     That is something that left me scratching my head in wonder.  Why didn’t Jesus correct them if they, indeed, were in error?  He certainly corrected them on other matters, and if there was no such thing as ghosts, and the disciples believed in them, one would think Jesus might have had something to say on the matter to set them straight.

     It’s not a wise idea to try to argue doctrine from what’s not said in the Bible, as opposed to what is recorded (under inspiration) as actually being said, and I’m not trying to say that are most definitely ghosts, based on what Jesus didn’t say about them.  But I do find it strange that He didn’t nip their superstition, as it were, in the proverbial bud.

     You mentioned 1 Samuel 28, the witch or medium of Endor passage.  Let’s look at a portion of that passage:

 

¹¹ Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” ¹² When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” ¹³ The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” ¹⁴ He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.

 

¹⁵ Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

 

     The woman says she sees, “a god” coming up out of the earth.” The Hebrew word for “god” used there is “Elohim.”  It is a word that can denote Yahweh God (big “G”) or lesser gods (little “g”).  Elohim is used to denote any kind of disembodied, superhuman spirits, whether it be God Himself, or angelic type figures, both good and bad, or pagan deities over which Israel stumbled.

     So what is Samuel in that passage?  Is he a ghost in the classical sense of what we determine ghosts to be—a disembodied spirit of someone who has previously died?  It’s a good question.  And while you are right when you say that the Bible condemns the consulting of mediums or the dead, and it is a subject from whom Christians should steer clear, yet God allows it in this instance.  Again, another head scratcher.

     You asked whether or not I thought ghosts were or were not demons.  The Bible doesn’t give us much to go on when it comes to the origin of demons.  There is an interesting passage in the Book of Enoch (or 1^st Enoch) chapter 15: 8-12 which gives some clarification:

8. And now the giants, who have been begotten from body and flesh, will be called evil spirits on earth, and their dwelling-places will be upon the earth.

9. Evil spirits proceed from their bodies; because they are created from above, their beginning and first basis being from the holy watchers, they will be evil spirits upon    the earth, and will be called evil spirits.

10. But the spirits of heaven have their dwelling-places in heaven, and the spirits of the earth, who were born on the earth, have their dwelling-places on earth.

11. And the spirits of the giants, who cast themselves upon the clouds, will be destroyed and fall, and will battle and cause destruction on the earth, and do evil; they will take no kind of food, nor will they become thirsty, and they will be invisible.

12. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them, in the days of murder and destruction.

     So according to the book of Enoch, demons are the spirits of the dead Nephilim (giants). (Genesis 6:1-4.) 

     “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, ² the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. ³ Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” ⁴ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” (ESV)

     Granted there are different views on just who the “sons of God” are in that passage.  Many prominent Evangelicals insist it is the godly descendants of Seth (Adam and Eve’s son after the death of Abel) who mated with heathen women, and were corrupted.  However the Hebrew term for “sons of God” isn’t elsewhere used in referring to human males.  It is a term used for spiritual beings, hence fallen angels.

      These fallen angels [“Watchers”] were reported to have come from Heaven and lusted after human women, and thus mated with them, producing a race of giants (Nephilim) who so corrupted mankind that God sent the flood.  Also, it seems highly unlikely that godly men and heathen women could produce a race of giants. Verse 4 states:

 

” ⁴ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.”

 

     The word “when” can also be translated “whenever,” alternately rendering the verse, ” ⁴ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, whenever the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them.”

    That could explain how there were giants who plagued Israel from the days of the Exodus (King Og, and also the giants who terrified the spies) all through Joshua’s conquest of the promised land, and even into David’s time (Goliath).

     Again, from 1Enoch chapters 6-8:

 

1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.
    
2. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
    
3. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
    
        Now some might ask, why should we look to illustrate a Biblical idea with a book that is not a part of the Bible?  The Book of Enoch came to light in what’s called the Second Temple period 530 BC to 70 AD.  It is a safe bet that it wasn’t written by the Biblical Enoch from Genesis, as there exist no writings from that far back in history that we know of.  It is not included in the Canon of Scripture, although there were early Church Fathers who argued for its Canonicity. 
        While not held to be equal with Scripture, Jude under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit quoted 1^st Enoch:

“¹⁴ It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, ¹⁵ to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” Jude 1:14-15 (ESV)

     Also Peter in his second epistle, verse 4, also makes use of the Enochian material:

⁴ For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; (ESV)

 

     So while the Book of Enoch may not be equal with Scripture proper, some of its material the Holy Spirit saw fit to allow being included in two New Testament books, thus attesting to its helpfulness.  I tend to look at it like there are quite a number of Christian books that are helpful, but not inspired Scripture.  J.I. Packer’s “Knowing God,” and A. W. Tozer’s “The Pursuit of God,” would be two examples of many.

     For further study on this material, I heartily recommend Dr. Michael Heiser’s masterful works, “The Unseen Realm,” “Supernatural,” and “Reversing Hermon.”  His books are worth their prices for the bibliographies alone, not to mention the weighty content (all based upon scholarly, peer reviewed material).  What I wrote above is not even worthy of being called the Reader’s Digest Condensed version of said material.

     But back to my point, I do not think what many people think about when the word “ghosts” is mentioned, are demons.  Whatever ghosts are, they are not demons proper. That is not to say that ghosts should not be considered evil. There are a number of created entities which are in rebellion, and hostile to God and His people. But frankly, I just do not know. So as far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.

     Theologically, I still have a problem with the idea of the disembodied spirits of the dead hanging around, and it stems from Hebrews 9:27, which says, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” (ESV)  That verse pretty much interferes with the idea of earthbound ghosts in my book, unless God makes some major allowances in certain cases, which the Bible never mentions.

      To your question,

 

      “Carol asked me about the witch of Endor, with the conjuring up Samuel. How could she bring Samuel back? Was it because he had gone to Abraham’s bosom, and not like the rich man who was separated by the “great chasm”? And if that is true, does that mean a non-Christian can never be conjured back? (Luke 16:19-31)”

 

    My opinion and a dollar and a half will get you a cup of coffee at your local diner, but here goes anyway.  Samuel’s case was an isolated event, which is not again covered in books coming before or coming after 1Samuel 28.  God clearly “allowed” the situation to progress as it is recorded, without endorsing it.  As has been said, Christians are to stay far away from occult practices, as they are forbidden by God due to their inherent evil nature—perhaps stemming from the corrupting teachings of the fallen Watchers from Genesis 6 and Enoch.

      The witch of Endor had no more power over the “ghost” of Samuel than God allowed in that instance, any more than I have the power to make gold bars from wooden sticks.  God allowed it to occur to drive home the point to Saul of the loss of his kingdom to David, and as an object lesson to us that we should inquire of God and shouldn’t seek knowledge from occult sources.  The results of the tolerance of evil are dramatically and starkly portrayed in the recorded details of the history of Israel in Judges, and also in the divided kingdom after Solomon and prior to the exile.

     Where exactly Samuel was when the conjuring took place, I cannot rightly say.  Old Testament writers have demonstrated that the belief in that day was that all of the dead enter Sheol, or the realm of the dead, but that the righteous would not be abandoned to Sheol forever. 

     Matthew 22:8 and John 11:24, among other passages, show that among Jews there was a belief in the resurrection, even if it was not understood completely.  But the Bible doesn’t spell it out clearly as to when the resurrection (as believed by the Jews of the times) would be accomplished.  Of course the resurrection of Jesus is the surety for all believer’s resurrection at the end of time.  But whether Samuel was in Sheol or Abraham’s bosom or in Heaven proper, the Bible doesn’t give a definitive answer.  We can be sure that Samuel was under God’s watchful care, and in this one instance he was allowed to serve God again even after death.

     But that said, I do not believe a believer’s spirit, soul, ghost or whatever you want to call it, can be subject to conjuring rituals or spells, unless there is a Divine purpose to it, as in the case of Samuel.  Our lives are…”hidden with Christ in God.”  Colossians 3:3 (ESV).   As for non-believers, I’m not sure.  As their souls are not with God, perhaps their race has been run.  Perhaps wherever they exist (Sheol or Hades, or somewhere else?), God might allow their souls to be manipulated, but we can only speculate.

    OK, why don’t we dim the lights, and let me leave you with a final…ghost story.  Do you remember J.B. Phillips, the man who wrote the Christian classic, “Your God Is Too Small,” and also a quite good translation of the New Testament? He told a very curious tale of something that happened to him.  Twice, it is told, while working on his New Testament translation, and as he struggled with depression and discouragement, he had two unsolicited ghostly visits from none other than the late C.S. Lewis. 

     According to Phillips, he had only met Lewis one time, and while they had corresponded via the postal service, he claims to have not known him that well.  A few days after Mr. Lewis’ passing, he appeared to Phillips in his home. Lewis’ presence manifested there, seated near Phillips, and said directly to him, “It’s not as hard as you think, you know.” These words were particularly comforting and encouraging to Phillips, and aided him in completing the arduous task of translating the New Testament.

     Phillips was a fairly skeptical man when it came to the paranormal, and not given to flights of fancy—face it, one must be fairly serious in discipline and demeanor to attempt to publish a translation (not a paraphrase) of the entire New Testament.  But he remained convinced that the late C.S. Lewis had visited him twice. 

     What do I make of it?  I cannot say, as I was neither there to witness it, nor did I ever meet Mr. Lewis or Mr. Phillips and speak with them about the matter.  Knowing Mr. Phillip’s work, I am inclined to not doubt his story, as he was a pretty straight arrow, and, moreover, he never capitalized on the experience. And in these days and times, that is almost more extraordinary than the appearance of a ghost.

Boo!

Dana